Sat 28 Jun 2008
What give atheists the idea that there is not a religion that could be good?
Posted by admin under Philosophy
les B asked:
I am not saying any are good now. But to say that there is no way a religion could be beneficial is not as accurate as atheists likes to think they are.
I am not saying any are good now. But to say that there is no way a religion could be beneficial is not as accurate as atheists likes to think they are.
June 29th, 2008 at 3:06 pm
Religion by definition is something that depends on and believes in God. Atheists are intimidated by the idea of God.
June 30th, 2008 at 12:00 pm
athiests r irreligious they believe in that what one can see and not imagine
July 3rd, 2008 at 9:27 pm
Atheists are not necessarily irreligious, or vice versa.
Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs.
July 4th, 2008 at 7:43 pm
Most (not all) athiests are the way they are for 1 of 2 reasons
either
A. they had some HORRIBLE experiece with religion in someway, either a religious (not nessisarily meaning a religious leader, it could have just been a parent or firend) person they knew, or a church they went to somehow wronged or offended them greatly.
B. they are just exrememly scientific “logical” people. they feel that “God” cant be proven so he can’t exsit.
July 8th, 2008 at 7:26 am
They are disillusioned nihilists, pessimists and angry anarchist.
It is the diligent task of the faithful to inspire them towards belief.
July 9th, 2008 at 5:30 pm
I think you are confusing atheists with agnostics. An atheist does not believe in God and so they don’t see a need for religion.
An agnostic can believe in God, but has no use for organized religion.
Every one of us must decide for ourselves what we believe and who we want to follow (if we want to follow anyone). Some of us take the easy road and go with the flow. Others search. Still others come to develop their own private beliefs. NO ONE IS WRONG. God gave us the ability to question and learn because he wanted us to use it.
July 10th, 2008 at 11:54 am
Atheists are indifferent to whether a religion is good or bad. They only question the basis for believing something on faith alone.
July 11th, 2008 at 12:34 pm
The fear that if religious convictions were demonstrated to be good, they might have to admit that they were wrong– or worse: give assent to the truth of a religious tradition.
July 12th, 2008 at 5:10 pm
Atheists only lack a belief in a deity. It has nothing to do with whether a religion is good or bad.
With that said, all you hear as an Atheist is how evil, destructive, and hateful you must be. It’s natural to spin it around and show just how many problems religion causes or refuses to address. Some have shown terrible things that happen in the name of religion, whether it’s the cause or the justification.
It isn’t that a religion can’t have good points. Its that they have no loyalty to the ideology that they believe is based on faulty reasoning and they have no qualms about pointing out the bad points.
July 14th, 2008 at 10:18 am
From one of the most ardent atheists since the Renaissance, Ayn Rand, comes these comforting words:
“…you must remember that religion is an early form of philosophy, that the first attempts to explain the universe, to give a coherent frame of reference to man’s life and a code of moral values, were made by religion, before men graduated or developed enough to have philosophy. And, as philosophies, some religions have very valuable moral points. They may have a good influence or proper principles to inculcate, but in a very contradictory context and, on a very—how should I say it?—dangerous or malevolent base: on the ground of faith.”
“Playboy’s Interview with Ayn Rand,” March 1964.
That is much kinder than the Founding Fathers, who had these things to day, despite that they were Deists, and as such are some of the most ardend defenders of God–for having graced us with “Reason, not Religion”:
[All quotes from the Founders are lifted from this link: ]
“I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my church. ”
“Of all the systems of religion that ever were invented, there is no more derogatory to the Almighty, more unedifiying to man, more repugnant to reason, and more contradictory to itself than this thing called Christianity. ”
Thomas Paine
“I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved — the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!”
John Adams
“During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution.”
“What influence, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the civil authority; on many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have they been the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wish to subvert the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate it, needs them not.”
James Madison
“If we look back into history for the character of the present sects in Christianity, we shall find few that have not in their turns been persecutors, and complainers of persecution. The primitive Christians thought persecution extremely wrong in the Pagans, but practiced it on one another. The first Protestants of the Church of England blamed persecution in the Romish church, but practiced it upon the Puritans. These found it wrong in the Bishops, but fell into the same practice themselves both here [England] and in New England.”
Benjamin Franklin
“Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting “Jesus Christ,” so that it would read “A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;” the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination.”
Thomas Jefferson
“We freethinkers [Freemasons] are, I suspect, sometimes suckers for the big lie that the U.S. really was founded as a Christian nation… I know I suspected something like that when I first read “As the government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian Religion…” as a quote from the Treaty with Tripoli. ”
By Ed Buckner, Ph.D. on the 1796-97 Treaty with Tripoli
That Treaty was signed by President John Adams
ADDED
Timaeus: My first quote at the top should dispell your notion about “having to admit we are wrong.”
July 16th, 2008 at 8:07 am
What gave Catholics,Buddhists,Muslims,Protestants
etc… etc… the idea that God (in whatever guise) created all.
Religion is the root of all evil. Full Stop!!!
I believe!
I believe in doing right by your fellow man/women.
I believe in living an honest and good life.
I believe in helping when it’s needed, whether it be friend or stranger.
I believe in Life and Creation and Truth and that all things are possible.
I don’t need to attach a Religious Doctrine to these beliefs to justify them or make them real. I do the bloody best i can do everyday in my life and that’s enough for me.
I have Faith!!!
but not in a man-made church,man-made rules and regulations,man-made codes and morals to live by.
God is everywhere. I’ve never found God in a book, in a church where some self ordained man preaches to me on whats right and wrong. I’m going to stop now because i could go on & on…….
God is everywhere,God for me is Truth and Freedom and Life.
July 18th, 2008 at 10:37 am
If you look it up in the A Merriam Webster Dictionary, the first meaning of religion relates to god. That makes it inherently a device of transference and denial.
July 21st, 2008 at 8:48 pm
It is the issue of “good” that argues for aetheism; if God is all knowing and all good, why is there evil?
If you have to answer that question by saying “because it is God’s way” you are missing the point.
Who is more religious an aetheist who spends his entire life studying and making a sincere informed choice not to believe, or a person of faith who also spends his entire life coming to his faith? Both, I think are more religious than people who make claims based on hearsay, or because someone told them to believe.
July 23rd, 2008 at 12:02 am
Think about it, why do people believe in religion? They want purpose. They want to feel special. They want to live after they die. They are afraid of the unknown. They feel alone in the universe.
All these things are based on desires and the root of all evil is desire. Religion is chosen based on what makes a person the happiest. It has nothing to do with being good, or worshiping god, or the truth. Religion at its care is a selfish desire to feel special or better than what we are. There is no need for that.
I know I’ll get a ton of thumbs down for this. But hey remember, at one point in history. Slavery was considered ok despite the fact that it was clear as day that it was wrong.
Edit - I wanted to add that there is nothing wrong with searching for happiness, everyone does it and it is my opinion that the purpose of life is to be happy. But it is wrong when you use your happiness to justify your spiritual superiority over others.
July 25th, 2008 at 12:54 am
Religions were originally created as a way to explain things. “how did we get here?”, “why is this so”, “why are things the way they are?”
Also, they gave us a reason to do right when we could do bad and get away with it (punishment). And quite necessarily, the belief that it’s all for some reason (heaven/hell).
Atheists, generally in my experience, believe you don’t need punishment or a reward to do right versus wrong, and that doing so for Being(s) that may or may not exist is wrong/foolish. I say “may or may not” because there are people who fall into our bracket of atheist who “just don’t believe” and are not adamant about it.(prove it)
As to saying no religion is beneficial, well, one must consider what religions as a whole have DONE. No country, no lust for money, no drug can compare to what we and our fore-bearers have done in the name of God. Slavery, genocide(several times in American history alone), torture(how-to books were written BY clergyman), oppression, subjugation, etc. Weighed against the good done IN THE NAME OF …, and not all good, for we may naturally do right because WE believe it’s right and not for our treasures in heaven. There is cannon fodder on both sides. Let’s take a breath before we shout.
July 27th, 2008 at 8:24 am
In professing a belief in religion, a person admits to endorsing a stunted version of the scientific method.
Remember this from school?:
1. Problem
2. Hypothesis
3. Experiment
4. Conclusion.
Scientists really do use that. Religion, unlike science, works like this:
1. Problem.
2. Hypothesis…
And that’s it. Stick with the hypothesis no matter what. No testing. No experiments.
Experimenting separates witch doctors from 21st century civilization.
July 30th, 2008 at 12:17 pm
who said that atheists think religion cant be good?
im atheist and i think religion can be very good; i also think it can be very bad.
its good because it gives people a set of rules to follow, something other than law to prevent them from doing wrong
its bad because they use religion to justify bad things, such as wars or in some cases just being an @sshole
August 2nd, 2008 at 1:02 pm
Because Atheists are lazy and don’t want to work that hard… They’d rather sit on the couch and believe they’re going to be worm food when they die… lol
August 5th, 2008 at 3:41 am
…religion was created by man to control man!!!
…the atheists saw through this and called it false…
August 6th, 2008 at 11:39 pm
“To the Christians who say that Christianity is a good thing: what has religion ever given us besides more to argue about and a more divided society? What has it ever given us besides more wars, discrimination and suffering? What has it ever done for us besides give us more to do, less time to work and more resources wasted on churches, books and guides? Really, has religion improved your life at all – or has it just made everything more complicated? In my point of view, religion is just another way humans have overcomplicated the workings of the world, by introducing new ways of life that have almost no benefit at all besides the brief religious feeling you may or may not have. It provides careless answers to complex, impossible questions. It spreads throughout the world and eats its way through people’s lives, until they realize that they wasted all their time on something that they shouldn’t worry about so much. Religion is a lie, a scam to make the world seem more explainable when it just becomes so much more complex, so much angrier and darker. Maybe in the future people will come to their senses. But until then, the world will remain shattered and torn, lying in pieces thanks to religion, the idea that has torn society apart.”
Anything else you want to say? That was just one answer.
August 7th, 2008 at 12:49 pm
Common logic gave them the idea. Walking on water, Virgin birth, Flying, Resurrection, sound like fairy tales to me.
August 9th, 2008 at 11:22 am
There are two questions here: whether religions are good, and whether religions can be believed in rationally. I think most atheists view religions as being a mixture of both good and bad, with the bad outweighing the good. (I’ll spare you a lengthy anti-religion rant.)
Beyond good or bad though, is simply whether it can be believed in. I for one have a hard time finding anything truly bad about Buddhism, they don’t believe in killing others for their religion or in forcing their beliefs down others’ throats. But it’s still not a religion I could accept, because they still believe in various supernatural things and superstitions like all the other religions. Reincarnation, karma, the mythologies surrounding lord Buddha, it’s all wishful thinking as utterly unsupported by evidence or logic as anything supernatural or mythical in any other religion.
Personally, I think Buddhism has been quite beneficial. It has brought a level of civility and compassion to its adherents that judeo-xtianity has only realized in the recent historical past and which islam is still struggling to find. But as an atheist I am incapable of believing in its supernatural components, nor do I need to be an adherent to be a good person.